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QB Moderator
| Hi everyone. This is Heidi from QuestBridge. Joining us today is Bruce Poch from Pomona, Mark Robertson from Williams and Josh Levy from Oberlin. |
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Pomona (Bruce)
| Hello, this is Bruce Poch from Pomona College in Claremont, California |
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Oberlin (Josh)
| Hi everyone. This is Josh Levy from Oberlin College in Oberlin, Ohio (about 35 miles southwest of Cleveland) |
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Williams (Mark)
| Welcome everyone, glad you're joining us this afternoon/evening! I'm Mark Robertson, assistant director of admission at Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts. Looking forward to your questions! |
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Question:
| I'm interested in being a lawyer dealing with international law. What is an appropriate major for me? |
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Oberlin (Josh)
| For someone interested in being a lawyer dealing with international law, your major should probably focus on something international. Politics certainly is a great idea. International relations would work as well. I'd also suggest studying a foreign language. |
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Pomona (Bruce)
| Honestly, you could major in anything to deal with law or international law. WIth that specific interest in international law you would and should include work in history, economics and politics and should find an opportunity to spend some time abroad. |
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Williams (Mark)
| At Williams, and many other liberal arts colleges, there actually is no pre-law major. Law schools will accept students with a from a wide variety of majors and experiences if they are great critical thinkers, writers, and researchers. Very often our top law candidates will major in political science, history, or English... but just as often, top candidates will major in the sciences or math. A great pre-law curriculum focuses on the skills -- rather than the content -- that will prepare you for law school. |
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Question
| Is there a law school at your university? if not, do many students major in pre-law? |
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Pomona (Bruce)
| There is rarely an official field called "PRE LAW".... We have students who are art majors, math majors, politics majors and physics majors moving into law.
Three of our graduates who were math majors moved onto Yale law school a couple of years ago and one moved into patent law, one into tax law and another is clerking for a federal appeals court judge. The major may not matter ... the LSAT and grades do. |
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Oberlin (Josh)
| Oberlin is a college, which means that there are no graduate programs at all. While we don't have a law school, we do have students who major in pre-law or law and society before going on to law school. However, we also have many students who study English or History or a science before entering law school.
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Question
| What is the single best major for a career as a trial lawyer, and why |
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Pomona (Bruce)
| There isn't a best major to be a trial lawyer... but I do suggest attending a college that very clearly requires a lot of oral presentation work. Experience in debate would also be beneficial. |
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Oberlin (Josh)
| I don't think there's an ideal major to prepare you for trial law. Learn to speak well and debate well and that will get you ready for trial. |
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Question
| With so many specialties, how do you figure out what kind of lawyer to be? |
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Pomona (Bruce)
| With respect, it really is WAY too early to think about specializing in a sub-field of law at this time. There are areas you couldn't possibly have thought about or been exposed to. IN fact, for many LAW school students, it isn't until they spend summers at a law firm that they begin to explore sub fields, such as Tax, employee benefits, intellectual property, litigation, mergers and acquisitions, appellate work.. etc. Really, be open to all sorts of possibilities, especially as an undergraduate and you will find yourself in the best possible postiion later as you move into law. |
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Question
| if one is not gifted in the area of speech, law would not be the best career? |
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Pomona (Bruce)
| don't worry about it. not all lawyers are trial lawyers. |
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Question
| Does a person have a better chance of admission to a law program if they've taken law classes or political enrichment classes? |
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Oberlin (Josh)
| Admission to a law program is not going to be based on the law or politics classes you've taken. They are going to be looking at many things, one of which is your college transcript. You should prepare for law school by taking a challenging curriculum that prepares you to write well and speak well. |
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ghosty
| Does a pre-law mayor at the undergraduate level look better than if a person majored in English or government? |
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Oberlin (Josh)
| As we said earlier, law schools are not as concerned with your undergraduate major. Politics, English, Government, a science--anything is fine. Law schools are concerned that you do very well in the classroom and on the LSATs. |
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Question
| when i think of law, i think of shows like law & order, etc. A lot of these shows seem to romanticize a career in law. how exciting or fun is law? |
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Oberlin (Josh)
| Being a lawyer isn't as glamorous as TV makes it appear. If you do become a lawyer, be prepared for EXTREMELY long hours in the office, little sleep, and many frustrating days. Yes, you might hit a home run, but you'll strike out many times before that. |
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Question
| How many of your school's graduates go on to law school? |
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Pomona (Bruce)
| At Pomona typically about 10-15% of our graduates ultimately go onto law school. |
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Williams (Mark)
| in any given year, ultimately ~10% of Williams grads go on to persue a career in law. |
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Oberlin (Josh)
| For Oberlin, the percentage is similar to Pomona and Williams. About 10-15% will eventually end up in law school. |
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Question
| How expensive is law school, Do law schools offer financial aid that is as generous as undergraduate schools? |
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Pomona (Bruce)
| Law schools very frequently offer a lot more in loans than in scholarships. Top law firms, quite honestly pay a LOT (equivalent of 140,000 annualized salary) for summer work... that's a couple thousand dollars per week... that is what law schools expect students to partially use to support themselves. Law school is expensive. Full price parallels top colleges. But there is other aid available for students, particuarly in their first year. That summer money comes in and helps with later years. |
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Williams (Mark)
| There are also differences in cost between public and private law schools. A public law school might cost $30,000 per year, while a top private might exceed $60,000 a year. As Bruce noted, most of this money is taken out in loans that you'll pay back once you start practicing. Professional school is an investment, but one that can clearly pay off in the long-term. Some schools will also forgive loans if you enter into public service law. |
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Question:
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How beneficial would a law degree be for a career in politics or public policy? |
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Williams (Mark)
| A background in law could be incredibly useful for public service and government, so could a background in public policy, economics, or business. Really depends on what areas of government you're interested in pursuing, and what role you'd like to play in decision-making. Those in the legislative branch clearly benefit from sound legal training; those in the executive branch often look to find research and analysis traning. |
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Pomona (Bruce)
| How beneficial would a law degree be for a career in politics or public policy?
It could be very beneficial. Many in state and federal government are attorneys by training, though not all. The ability to write "legalese" has its benefits for writing law and the ability to ask questions in hearings could also be quite useful. But law is a frame....it may wrap around the topic at hand but isn't a replacement for real knowledge in the field you may wish to servie in public policy, for example. |
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flivver76
| If you want to practice law in California, is it a good idea to go to law school in the east and then come back? Or would a California law school be better preparation? |
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Pomona (Bruce)
| There is no single answer to that question about where to go to law school. I know many from California who went to law school back east and many from the east who have come to California for our top law schools. Top law schools in fact do NOT prepare you for the Bar exam of an individual state. They teach theory and basic law tenets. You would still need to prepare for the state bar..... On the other hand some California law schools focus so specifically on the state bar here that it is sort of covered. THe TOP law firms recruit most heavily and often exclusively from the top law schools only..... And they are in California, some in the midwest and some in the East...... |
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yejicathykim
| Is it better to go to less-expensive colleges to prepare for law school, since law school usually costs a lot? |
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Oberlin (Josh)
| Your education, undergraduate and legal school, is an investment in your future. You should go to a school that is going to prepare you for law school. Undergraduate schools offer financial aid to help cut down the costs before getting to law school. Your whole journey is going to be expensive, so get the best preparation you can. Law school will (hopefully) help you pay back what you owe. |
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yejicathykim
| Is it true that liberal arts colleges tend to prepare you better for Law School than regular universities? |
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Pomona (Bruce)
| I think all of us from these small colleges would say YES..though really it is arguable. GO where you will learn to write, analyze, speak and be exposed to a wide range of fields and people. All of that helps and our belief is that you will get more of that at a small college. But we are biased! |
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Williams (Mark)
| The schools that seem to best prepare students for admission at top law schools are those that train their students in critical thinking, writing, speaking, and writing -- all things top liberal arts schools pride themselves on doing. Does this mean that other schools with larger classes will not prepare you for law school? Certainly not. But the ways in which we teach, with lots of day-to-day interaction with professors and fellow students, is a great way to learn how to think on your feet and do serious research. |
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Question
| How important are extracurriculars to law schools? |
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Oberlin (Josh)
| QuestBridge schools prefer to see students who are involved in activites other than their academics. Athletics, community service, high school clubs, etc are all ways of showing a college that you have qualities to bring to the table and add to a community.
Law schools are not going to care about your extracurricular activities. |
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Williams (Mark)
| Extracurriculars could be important to law schools if they relate to the skills that law schools are looking for, like leadership and research background, perhaps. But law schools really put a premium on a strong undergraduate GPA, top LSAT scores, and recommendations. |
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ghosty
| How does one know if a career in law is the appropriate path? |
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Williams (Mark)
| Students interested in law, or any career for that matter, should try to get experiences such as internships that expose them to what the career will offer them. It's hard to say without doing something if you'll like it for the long-haul or not. All of the QB partner colleges will help you find such experiences working with a career counseling office. |
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QB Moderator
| It's about time to wrap this chat up. I'd like to thank Bruce Poch from Pomona, Josh Levy from Oberlin and Mark Robertson from Williams for their time and expertise. |
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Oberlin (Josh)
| Heidi, thanks to you and QuestBridge for hosting the chat. I hope that all of the students found it to be valuable for them in some way. |
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Williams (Mark)
| Thanks again for joining in, everyone. Feel free to email me at mrobertson@williams.edu if you have any further questions about pre-law or Williams! |
